The Only Modern Subsim?

[Zachstar]

Now that SCS has a 11 million in contract money. Which is what? 1000 times the profit they made on DW? I do not doubt that they are no longer considering any major updates to DW and perhaps no longer even considering a patch.

It seems that modern submarine simulation development is just about gone outside the various homemade simulators... And of course Community Subsim.

In my view I think it is time that us Modern Submarine fans stop with this game of waiting for SCS to do something for a series of games that do not make them profit. I think that the effort that Dr. Sid is starting here ought to be fully supported by the community and urged along as it could be the only simulation that isn't abandonware for the next 2-3 years.

The issue with HUGE development teams and monster R&D budgets seems to be ruining development of simulation for the remainder of this generation.

Perhaps in the future we will see a new type of simulation developing where there is a central "Engine" and different publishers can output "platforms" or "aspects"

Like perhaps in 2010. Ubisoft teams up with SCS and announces its intention to create such an engine and get the process started by creating the navy aspect part with several platforms. AND bring it's experience with aircraft simulation into the action. EA games teams up with the US ARMY to provide a hugely accurate FPS troop perspective.. so on and so forth.

So while you are playing the America's Army part of the package.. You can call in Air support from a Hornet that launched from an aircraft carrier that is now currently under attack from 65cm torps form a Akula-II

Let us face it. The line is reaching WAY too far for any single publisher to be able to hold on to profit generating

[Dr.Sid]

Maybe Ubisoft will do some light-weight, atmosphere oriented modern/coldwar subsim. But look at IL2. Did it continue toward early jets in Korea and Vietnam ? It didn't. Anyway at the moment, UBI is only company I would expect something from. But I don't expect it to be hardcore enough for me.

[Zachstar]

IL2 could not have moved into Korea without MASSIVE amounts of code work. That MAY have been the whole idea of 1946. However, I think they quickly realized what they were getting into and decided to go after Storm of War instead.

SOW might be what could start a similar process for WW2 HOWEVER, WW2 has been beaten to death with a million different hammers.

That Black Shark game from LOMAC sounds hardcore enough for me! However, it took what? 2 years so far and that is for one chopper. The most they can do without a MAJOR new effort is to add in Cobra and Apache units. A good investment! However just not enough to sell.

No what I am speaking of is something to get people on their Xboxes, PSPs, and cell phones to participate in things PC people are playing with. Today's massive advances in CPU and graphics technology demands MASSIVE battles instead of POV based combat.

If anyone is interested. I am noticing these advances in easy fiber optic and holographic with interest. Yes I know we are hundreds of years away from the holodecks of Star Trek. However, I do not think we are even half a decade away from the holoroom which I think will be a room of the house one makes that is devoted to the interaction and display of computer graphics.

The Wii has blown open the door to this. The wiimote I think is the precursor to these rooms where you set up different interaction devices and the room is filled with images of what you are interacting with. Such as the control room of an FFG.

The problem is that you need massive amounts of computer power to do this. Instead of showing something on a 2D screen, you are having to draw 3D shapes in a room with light...

[Dr.Sid]

That is not that much of a work. You would need model of the room, sure. You would have to transfer the screen textures into GPU every frame. But that has to be done even in 2D.

Rendering all the screens at once, when in DW you only see one or two at a time, that is the problem. But not much a problem. Sooner or later it will be possible, and it may show that it is possible even know.

I hope later in this project we will try 3D interfaces. It can add to the atmosphere, and for helos and planes they are must have.

[Zachstar]

3D interfaces are completely useless in a modern subsim that simulates combat. They will more than likely get in the way.

Let me see if I can convey this holoroom correctly.

You hold some kind of interactive stick. Around it the computer "Writes" into the air a baseball bat that you can swing to hit the ball.

The bat isn't being drawn to a 2D surface. It is being "built" into the space. So the computer loads will be quite high.

Yes it will take QUITE some time for someone to get this going. However, At the rate the graphics industry is going. I'd say the first ones may appear in half a decade or so. That is just a flat guess.

They got the first issue fixed which was the need of extremely fast and high bandwith output which of course is in a new type of fiber optic that is designed for use in home and buisness networks.

Anyway I am just saying all that because we need to think about what the future is going to mean... To say that new games require large teams is an understatement NOW. Think about it in a year from now when these double and quad core graphics cards start coming out.

And when I think about it I can see the benefit from it. I mean I look forward to being that Hornet pilot giving air support to those player troops on the ground. Its going to suck tho when after I mess with the GMT radar and do a CCRP drop. I hear that the carrier is under attack from Dr. Sids uber akula fleet. :eek: :slap:

[Zachstar]

.....

I hope later in this project we will try 3D interfaces. It can add to the atmosphere, and for helos and planes they are must have.


Are you considering player Helos and Aircraft now?

I think you may want to rethink this... You already have a huge task to accomplish by just simulating subs! If you start thinking about air units you really need to consider making this an open development project.

[Molon Labe]

It would be nice if we could get new sims on the market, but it seems like we're just too small of a market to get companies to invest in it. We've got to be happy for what we get.

In the meantime, projects such as this one offer a lot of promise if one is willing to be patient. The final product can be expected to be much more realistic than anything put out so far, and with scalability, it can still be accessible to the majority of the already small market. I would hope that such a project would ultimately grow the market and set a new standard for commercial sims to live up to.

Another hope for the naval sim market might be the America's Army model. AA is driven by the Army as a recruiting program, so provided the Army gets recruits they don't see their sim development expenses as losses the way SCS does. AA for the USN would be to give people a feel for what the combat roles of captain/crew/pilot/etc. would be, drawing attention to the "sexy" parts of navy life and providing players with a fun and challenging problem solving experience. The problem would be creating a sim that accomplishes those objectives without giving away classified information---with AA you don't have to deal with nearly as much technology. But, I think that obstacle could be overcome using a similar strategy that SCS has used but applied more faithfully--reliance on information from private institutions, where the Navy neither confirms nor denies the accuracy of the information used.

[Zachstar]

Americas Army is little different from quake when you get down to it. Just alot more marketing and effort.

No the navy sadly lost it's chance to do a dangerous waters and take the lead years ago... However, I think they could do joint effort with the Army for their parts in that massive battle simulation I mentioned above.

You know what I am saying right? There needs to be a standard where different companies can contribute to a bigger picture. Therefore you can have your battle and eat it too. There is no other way to justify the massive expense of R&D these days.

Otherwise we are going to be looking at these arcades for the next decade. Gah!, when I want to play a game I'll play Sonic and Zelda.