Molon Labe
02-24-2008, 12:30 AM
This is a follow up to a discussion started at Subsim: Brainstorming the persian gulf... - SUBSIM Radio Room Forums (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=130311). Posts 5 and 2 will essentially bring everyone up to speed.
This is an extraordinarily large project, and since others have expressed interest in a possible joint design project, I'm opening the building process to everyone. The first phase in this project is to find out what ideas will work with the tools we have and what can't be done. This information will be necessary to move to the beta construction phase. The following is a list of "feasibility study" projects that I'll be gradually working on. If anyone would like to take on any of these studies, please post in this thread that you're working on it, and when complete, please post your findings and the test scenario you used to make it happen (or not).
1. Reporting detection of Mobile Mine
What we need to know: Will a trigger to report true if playable platforms (FFG, MH-60, P-3, 688I) detect a mobile mine deployed during the mission? Will a trigger report true if an AI platform detects a mobile mine deployed during the mission? What is the PASSIVE detection range against the mobile mine when it is in motion?
Context: Evaluation of the feasibility of a port-mining objective and provocation resulting from the mining being detected.
Suggestions: The Detect doctrine only works with objects placed in the editor, so it cannot be used against a Mobile Mine directly. Try spawning moored influence mines with a destination trigger testing for proximity of a Moored Mine, and then detecting the Moored Mine.
2. Reporting Attributable Minelaying
What we need to know: Is there a way to test for conditions under which the deployment of mines would be attributed to a platform?
Context: Determining the level of provocation should a minefield be discovered. (this is also applicable to SOF forces detection, although there is no way to test for SOF detection itself. Just something to think about)
Suggestions: A trigger system might be set up to test for whether a minelaying platform (Kilo) is in proximity to a detected minefield and if the Kilo has been detected. Time can be another variable. There are probably several ways to do this; find the best way. EDIT: Another method of attribution might be if detection of a platform is held while the weapon is launched, assume detection and attribution of weapon launch transient. =)
3. Simulating an attempt to capture a boarding party (i.e., the Cornwall incident)
What we need to know: Can a player command a group of small boats (e.g. Boghammars) to break away from their patrol area and approach a platform? Can they be scripted to turn around after completing their objective (an approach goal, obviously) and/or being prevented from completing their mission?
Context: At some point, coalition forces will probably have to send small craft to board suspected smuggling ships near the Iranian maritime border. Iran will have the option of making a play for the boarding team, as it did in RL to the crew of the HMS Cornwall. The locations where the boardings might occur will almost certainly be predetermined, unfortunately.
Suggestions: This is another area there is more than one way to do it; we need to find the best way. The "track target platform" option might be of some use. Beyond that this is probably a scripted course/speed job. In a pinch, suicide attack might work provided the suicidal boats are despawned with a proximity trigger before they actually do blow up; replacements would have to be respawned of course. Or upon receiving the command, the original (patrolling) boats can be despawned with replacements spawned that have waypoints that take them to the correct location. Several conditions might lead to an abort: proximity of Coalition platforms, detection of Coalition platforms, the sinking of one of the small boats, etc.
4. Mosquito Boat Attack
What we need to know: Can a suicide attack be initiated by player command? Can fast craft (e.g. Fast Infiltration Craft, Boghammar) be scripted to maintain a provocative distance prior to such attack (and is there any way to make them hold station against a formation that may have a variable course?) What is the maximum distance an FFG can be from another ship in the formation to defend it from such an attack (.50 cal and CIWS)? Can AI warships be scripted to defend themselves once an attack is underway? What weapons will the AI warships use to defend themselves if ROE is wartime and the small craft are less than 1nm away? Can the boats be scripted to go away peaceably after a certain amount of time or other triggering event?
Context: This is a recreation of the Port Royal (et. al) incident, plus a money shot. This might be triggered by in-game events, but also, I'd like it to be triggerable by a Kilo which may itself be in position to attack simultaneously.
Suggestions: The FIC is a bit buggy and can get crazy-fast or go submerged, so play with speed options a bit to see if any settings work better than others. Use the COMSAT mod to trigger the attack. The "track target platform" may be of some use to cause the boats to move into proximity with the target formation.
5. Oil Platform Seizure and Ship Sabotage
What we need to know: What weapons work against oil platforms? (including SOFs) Can an approach trigger detect a SOF unit as it arrives so that the platform (Oil rig or ship) can be immediately removed and respawned? If the SOF unit does board the platform, how long does it take to explode and how much damage is done? (platforms of interest: Oil Rig, Wasp, Harpers Ferry, Sacramento, Supply, Avenger)
Context: Kilos will have options which might include destroying or sabotaging oil rigs or high-value ships, or holding crews hostage. It would be advantageous if some sort of SOF activity could occur without the other side knowing about it (because it explodes or creates a new radar contact, for example).
Suggestions: Sakura mod might be required for the Oil Rig questions. Options to do this stealthily may be limited because a sub-launched SOF squad cannot be removed by a trigger/script.
6. Detection Range Testing:eek:
(no, I don't expect to find out every single one of these)
Active Sonar Testing
Conditions to test in:
Bottom Limited
Sand
SS1 and SS5: Front and side aspect @ PD
SS1 and SS5: Front and side aspect @ 100m
Mud
SS1 and SS5: Front and side aspect @ PD
SS1 and SS5: Front and side aspect @ 100m
Sensors and Targets to Test
Playable FFG Active vs Kilo(I)
limited run with non-improved Kilo to see if there is a significant difference
Playable DICASS shallow vs Kilo I)
Playable MH-60 Dipper vs Kilo(I)
AI Tico/Burke vs. Kilo (I)
AI DICASS shallow vs. Kilo
FFG-controlled MH-60 dipper vs. Kilo
Playable FFG Active vs Mobile Mine
Playable FFG Active vs. Moored Influence Mine
Playable DICASS vs. Mobile Mine
Playable DICASS vs. Moored Influence Mine
Passive Sonar Testing
Conditions to test in:
Bottom Limited
Sand
SS1 and SS5
SS1 and SS5
Mud
SS1 and SS5
SS1 and SS5
Sensors (playable and AI)
TACTASS
TB-23
DIFAR
VLAD
Dipper
Targets:
Kilo(I) (limited run of non-improved to quantify difference)
100m, 6 kts
100m, 12 kts
Mobile Mine
SOF raft (at speed it launches from subs from)
Radar
Conditions: Clear and Rain
Sensors
FFG surface Radar (when appropriate)
FFG air radar (when appropriate)
MH60 Radar
P-3 Radar
Targets
Fast Infiltration Craft
Boghammar
SOF Raft
Fishing Boat
SS-N-27 LAM
Combatantee
Saam
ESM
Conditions: clear and rain
Sensors: Boghammar, Fast Infiltration Craft
Emitters: FFG surface radar, FFG fire control radar, MH-60 radar
Visual
Conditions: Day and clear(best); Night and Rain (worst)
Sensors: FFG lookout, Tico/Burke etc. visual, MH60 visual
Target: SOF raft
And Boghammar Visual vs. MH-60
All help is very much appreciated.
This is an extraordinarily large project, and since others have expressed interest in a possible joint design project, I'm opening the building process to everyone. The first phase in this project is to find out what ideas will work with the tools we have and what can't be done. This information will be necessary to move to the beta construction phase. The following is a list of "feasibility study" projects that I'll be gradually working on. If anyone would like to take on any of these studies, please post in this thread that you're working on it, and when complete, please post your findings and the test scenario you used to make it happen (or not).
1. Reporting detection of Mobile Mine
What we need to know: Will a trigger to report true if playable platforms (FFG, MH-60, P-3, 688I) detect a mobile mine deployed during the mission? Will a trigger report true if an AI platform detects a mobile mine deployed during the mission? What is the PASSIVE detection range against the mobile mine when it is in motion?
Context: Evaluation of the feasibility of a port-mining objective and provocation resulting from the mining being detected.
Suggestions: The Detect doctrine only works with objects placed in the editor, so it cannot be used against a Mobile Mine directly. Try spawning moored influence mines with a destination trigger testing for proximity of a Moored Mine, and then detecting the Moored Mine.
2. Reporting Attributable Minelaying
What we need to know: Is there a way to test for conditions under which the deployment of mines would be attributed to a platform?
Context: Determining the level of provocation should a minefield be discovered. (this is also applicable to SOF forces detection, although there is no way to test for SOF detection itself. Just something to think about)
Suggestions: A trigger system might be set up to test for whether a minelaying platform (Kilo) is in proximity to a detected minefield and if the Kilo has been detected. Time can be another variable. There are probably several ways to do this; find the best way. EDIT: Another method of attribution might be if detection of a platform is held while the weapon is launched, assume detection and attribution of weapon launch transient. =)
3. Simulating an attempt to capture a boarding party (i.e., the Cornwall incident)
What we need to know: Can a player command a group of small boats (e.g. Boghammars) to break away from their patrol area and approach a platform? Can they be scripted to turn around after completing their objective (an approach goal, obviously) and/or being prevented from completing their mission?
Context: At some point, coalition forces will probably have to send small craft to board suspected smuggling ships near the Iranian maritime border. Iran will have the option of making a play for the boarding team, as it did in RL to the crew of the HMS Cornwall. The locations where the boardings might occur will almost certainly be predetermined, unfortunately.
Suggestions: This is another area there is more than one way to do it; we need to find the best way. The "track target platform" option might be of some use. Beyond that this is probably a scripted course/speed job. In a pinch, suicide attack might work provided the suicidal boats are despawned with a proximity trigger before they actually do blow up; replacements would have to be respawned of course. Or upon receiving the command, the original (patrolling) boats can be despawned with replacements spawned that have waypoints that take them to the correct location. Several conditions might lead to an abort: proximity of Coalition platforms, detection of Coalition platforms, the sinking of one of the small boats, etc.
4. Mosquito Boat Attack
What we need to know: Can a suicide attack be initiated by player command? Can fast craft (e.g. Fast Infiltration Craft, Boghammar) be scripted to maintain a provocative distance prior to such attack (and is there any way to make them hold station against a formation that may have a variable course?) What is the maximum distance an FFG can be from another ship in the formation to defend it from such an attack (.50 cal and CIWS)? Can AI warships be scripted to defend themselves once an attack is underway? What weapons will the AI warships use to defend themselves if ROE is wartime and the small craft are less than 1nm away? Can the boats be scripted to go away peaceably after a certain amount of time or other triggering event?
Context: This is a recreation of the Port Royal (et. al) incident, plus a money shot. This might be triggered by in-game events, but also, I'd like it to be triggerable by a Kilo which may itself be in position to attack simultaneously.
Suggestions: The FIC is a bit buggy and can get crazy-fast or go submerged, so play with speed options a bit to see if any settings work better than others. Use the COMSAT mod to trigger the attack. The "track target platform" may be of some use to cause the boats to move into proximity with the target formation.
5. Oil Platform Seizure and Ship Sabotage
What we need to know: What weapons work against oil platforms? (including SOFs) Can an approach trigger detect a SOF unit as it arrives so that the platform (Oil rig or ship) can be immediately removed and respawned? If the SOF unit does board the platform, how long does it take to explode and how much damage is done? (platforms of interest: Oil Rig, Wasp, Harpers Ferry, Sacramento, Supply, Avenger)
Context: Kilos will have options which might include destroying or sabotaging oil rigs or high-value ships, or holding crews hostage. It would be advantageous if some sort of SOF activity could occur without the other side knowing about it (because it explodes or creates a new radar contact, for example).
Suggestions: Sakura mod might be required for the Oil Rig questions. Options to do this stealthily may be limited because a sub-launched SOF squad cannot be removed by a trigger/script.
6. Detection Range Testing:eek:
(no, I don't expect to find out every single one of these)
Active Sonar Testing
Conditions to test in:
Bottom Limited
Sand
SS1 and SS5: Front and side aspect @ PD
SS1 and SS5: Front and side aspect @ 100m
Mud
SS1 and SS5: Front and side aspect @ PD
SS1 and SS5: Front and side aspect @ 100m
Sensors and Targets to Test
Playable FFG Active vs Kilo(I)
limited run with non-improved Kilo to see if there is a significant difference
Playable DICASS shallow vs Kilo I)
Playable MH-60 Dipper vs Kilo(I)
AI Tico/Burke vs. Kilo (I)
AI DICASS shallow vs. Kilo
FFG-controlled MH-60 dipper vs. Kilo
Playable FFG Active vs Mobile Mine
Playable FFG Active vs. Moored Influence Mine
Playable DICASS vs. Mobile Mine
Playable DICASS vs. Moored Influence Mine
Passive Sonar Testing
Conditions to test in:
Bottom Limited
Sand
SS1 and SS5
SS1 and SS5
Mud
SS1 and SS5
SS1 and SS5
Sensors (playable and AI)
TACTASS
TB-23
DIFAR
VLAD
Dipper
Targets:
Kilo(I) (limited run of non-improved to quantify difference)
100m, 6 kts
100m, 12 kts
Mobile Mine
SOF raft (at speed it launches from subs from)
Radar
Conditions: Clear and Rain
Sensors
FFG surface Radar (when appropriate)
FFG air radar (when appropriate)
MH60 Radar
P-3 Radar
Targets
Fast Infiltration Craft
Boghammar
SOF Raft
Fishing Boat
SS-N-27 LAM
Combatantee
Saam
ESM
Conditions: clear and rain
Sensors: Boghammar, Fast Infiltration Craft
Emitters: FFG surface radar, FFG fire control radar, MH-60 radar
Visual
Conditions: Day and clear(best); Night and Rain (worst)
Sensors: FFG lookout, Tico/Burke etc. visual, MH60 visual
Target: SOF raft
And Boghammar Visual vs. MH-60
All help is very much appreciated.