Nub Help

[Criztian]

Ok so i just recently got DW (from steam), I've watched the little dinky video tutorial which did jack squat in helping me understand how to play this game. I've also read some of the manual, but everytime I go into the game thinking "I understand now!" I get 5 min in until numbers and things are popping up that I can't make heads or tails out of. The manual seems to describe how to use the specific station, just doesn't deal with when I should use it or how to interpret the data being thrown at me.

Is there a online manual that anyone can recommend, cause at this point I just feel like I'll never understand this game (which I would really love to understand).

Also since I'm using the "vanilla" version of the game, is there any "must have" mods out there?

[Molon Labe]

Ok so i just recently got DW (from steam), I've watched the little dinky video tutorial which did jack squat in helping me understand how to play this game. I've also read some of the manual, but everytime I go into the game thinking "I understand now!" I get 5 min in until numbers and things are popping up that I can't make heads or tails out of. The manual seems to describe how to use the specific station, just doesn't deal with when I should use it or how to interpret the data being thrown at me.

Is there a online manual that anyone can recommend, cause at this point I just feel like I'll never understand this game (which I would really love to understand).

Also since I'm using the "vanilla" version of the game, is there any "must have" mods out there?

I made a training mission (http://www.commanders-academy.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11403) for people in your situation. Oneshot also made a P-3 operator's guide (http://www.commanders-academy.com/forum/showthread.php?t=27) which is similarly useful. Specific, informed questions are of course always welcome too; as long as we can see that you've done your homework we're always happy to help out.

LWAMI (http://www.subguru.com/DW_missions/LWAMI_308_Full.zip) is the main DW mod. What it does. (http://www.subguru.com/DW_missions/LWAMI_308_Readme.txt)

[CapitanPiluso]

In "General tips & tricks" you can find an excellent topic http://www.commanders-academy.com/forum/showthread.php?t=40 by OneShot.
It helped me a lot, hope you too.
Cheers

[Criztian]

whoot well it took me about 3 days of reading manuals and training, though I`m not quite yet there, I`ve actually managed (I don`t know how much of an accomplishment this is) to sink the freighter in the Training ASW mission provided (I know that wasn`t my goal...but...) with all the autopilots turned off!

I identified using the NB, got the bearing using the TA BB, got speed info using Demon display, then plotted using TMA and then once I did that I wanted to `test my info`my firing a torpedo at it, and KABLAMO!

Now a stupid question that was probably in the manual, but I might have missed it, but I can`t seem to find this information. Once I classified the contact and got the TPK value and got the track to show on my Demon display, I noticed I get several vertical lines on the display. Now for the purposes of the training mission I `guessed` the speed as the options it gave were 10kts and 20kts and it seemed far more practical for a large freighter to be doing 10kts. So how do I know which `line` (pardon me, I`m not quite sure of the technical lingo` should I use, and how do I know which one to use. Again sorry for the stupid question.

But all the manuals I`ve managed to dig out from the internet and the training mission (with the instructions) have been a huge help, I still get the `what the f*** is that` feeling every now and then, but for the most part I actually feel like I have a grasp of what`s going on.

[goldorak]

For getting reliable speed information in demon station, you have to put the cursor on the first vertical line. First being first from the left.
To get an accurate speed use the zoom feature, select the lowest level of zoom and put the cursor on the first vertical line.
You will read the "real" speed of the contact.
If you don't use the zoom feature, even putting the cursor on the first line will give you several speeds.

[Criztian]

For getting reliable speed information in demon station, you have to put the cursor on the first vertical line. First being first from the left.
To get an accurate speed use the zoom feature, select the lowest level of zoom and put the cursor on the first vertical line.
You will read the "real" speed of the contact.
If you don't use the zoom feature, even putting the cursor on the first line will give you several speeds.

Ahh, see that's what I was thinking. Somehow I couldn't believe that this giant piece of steel was moving at the insane speed of 40kts.

I'm just wondering, but what's the "theory" behind that? I understand how to interpret Demon information, but how does it come to get that information, and why are these other "vertical lines" created in the display? I know it's not really important for the purposes of playing the game and getting a kill, but I'm interested to know.

[ljdramone]

The theory is that the DEMON (DEMOdulated Noise) display extracts information from the noise generated by a ship's propellor. The DW display shows the propeller rotation frequency (the leftmost line), and additional lines (harmonics) for each blade on the propeller.

The position of the leftmost line tells you how fast the target's propeller shaft is turning. To determine the target's speed, you need to know the Turns Per Knot (TPK) for that particular class of ship. Set TPK and position the cursor over the leftmost line, and DEMON tells you the target's speed in knots.

The number of lines tells you how many blades the target's propeller has. You can use this information to help confirm that the target is the type of ship you think it is -- if you think it's a freighter but you see it has a 5-bladed prop, think again.

Prop blade count and TPK for each ship and sub class in DW can be found in the USNI reference.

My understanding is DW's DEMON display is much simpler than real-life DEMON displays.

[Criztian]

Well I never thought it would happen, I went through an entire mission, and I was totally in control. Not once did I feel like I didn't know what's going on.

I feel like I still need more practice with solving the ambigious bearings on the towed array. Especially in a high traffic enviroment. Sometimes I get confused with that. But I'm sure that will come with time and practice.

I'm still keeping TMA on auto-crew, but I've been reading some manuals on that one so i'm hoping to work on that.


Now a bit of an off topic question, but I've been wondering, how does DW relate to actually working SONAR on a real life submarine, I would obviously assume it's totally different experience, but I'm just wondering is it comparable. I'm not really looking to join the navy or anything, but I've been curious to know if being able to get through this properly gives any "advantages" to actual real life sonar operations.

[goldorak]

Well I never thought it would happen, I went through an entire mission, and I was totally in control. Not once did I feel like I didn't know what's going on.

I feel like I still need more practice with solving the ambigious bearings on the towed array. Especially in a high traffic enviroment. Sometimes I get confused with that. But I'm sure that will come with time and practice.



You can reduce the ambiguity on the towed array contact bearings by switching between spherical sonar/lateral sonar and towed array. The first 2 don't have ambiguos bearings so by comparing what you see on the towed array and what you see on the other 2 sonars you can infer which bearings are ambigious. Of course for this to work you must consider only the contacts which are received simultanously on towed array and spherical/lateral.

[Criztian]

Well I understand that, I'm mostly refering to contacts that are only being aquired by the Towed Array

[ljdramone]

Using other sources of information (additional bearings from ESM, passive contacts from bow or hull sonar, ping bearings from your active intercept, etc.) is definitely the easiest way to decide which side of the towed array your contact is really on.

The big benefit of the towed array, though, is that it's more sensitive and will pick up passive contacts that are too faint to be detected by your bow or hull sonar. Here's how to eliminate ambiguity if the only contact you have is on the towed array.

Let's assume your course is 180 (due south). Your towed array is pointing north-south. You have an ambiguous towed array contact, bearings 90 and 270 degrees. It's either due east or due west of you.

To figure out which bearing is correct, you need to turn the towed array and watch how the two bearings change.

Say you turn left 30 degrees, to 210. You will have to wait several minutes for the towed array to turn and straighten out behind you on the new course. After the towed array finishes turning, your ambiguous contact will have bearings near 90 (same as before) and 330 (270 plus twice the number of degrees you turned.) The contact's real bearing is the one that didn't change much because of your turn, and the false bearing is the one that changed a lot. You now know the contact's bearing is 90, so it's to your east. Drop the false contact, assign a tracker to the true one, and begin TMA.

You can make the towed array turn faster by speeding up so the TA will be pulled around the curve of your turn quicker.

Note that towed array bearings are inaccurate if the array is in the middle of a turn. If you can figure out which lines in the TMA display were generated when the array was turning, ignore them in your TMA solution.

Things are more complicated with the FFG-7's towed array, since it shows bearings relative to the ship's course. The sub TAs show true bearings (relative to north, not to the direction the sub is pointed.)

[ljdramone]

Whoops, that should be "say you turn *right* 30 degrees, to 210", not left.
:gdamnit:

[Criztian]

Ok well now I got the sub down, is there any "Training Missions" for the Perry Class Frigate, cause I don't get that thing.

One issue I'm having is detecting close surface contacts. For example in the campaign Red Storm Rising, I could be looking out from the bridge at a sailboat not 10 meters in front of me, and my "lookout" will not detect it.

Also I'm really having difficulty understanding the acoustic station, and the sono-bouys, and all that jazz.

But to be fair I haven't read the manual the thourghly for it, so I can't complain.

Oh and the Russian subs are a mistery to me. I don't know what the frig is going on with them. But again, I'm sure with practice I'll get the hang of the different sonars and what not.

[rwsmythe]

[...]

Now a bit of an off topic question, but I've been wondering, how does DW relate to actually working SONAR on a real life submarine, I would obviously assume it's totally different experience, but I'm just wondering is it comparable. I'm not really looking to join the navy or anything, but I've been curious to know if being able to get through this properly gives any "advantages" to actual real life sonar operations.

It is comparable to learning to ride a bike on a bike with training wheels in the back and the front and has no ability to turn. You'll recognize what a bike looks like, and some of the actions (like pedaling) will be familiar, but there are a few things missing and you won't be able to jump in and be an expert even if you are an expert DW bubblehead. But it does help a little.