Depth Control Problem

[Sub Sailor]

I finished a series of tests on the Akula, 688i, and the Seawolf and I believe this to be significant and effects game play tremendously. My full test results are over on the SubSum Forum but I will give major figures here also.

Each test started at 600 feet(200 meters for Akula) answering a flank bell, all turns were 180 degrees and imputed using orderd course. I ran 10 tests per boat, all boats would recover ordered depth after the turn-but here is the problem.
This is an average of ten tests per boat.

688i finished the turn 279.4 feet below odered depth.

Seawolf finshed the turn 208.8 feet below oderd dpth.

Akula finished the turn 94 meters(308 feet) below odered depth.

If you are operating in shallow water and must take evasive action you are in trouble. Also for fun I tried some turns at max depth, all boats drop below crush depth, crush depth works in DW. At 600 feet each boat went deep enough to cause significant hull popping.

I am running 1.03 and LAWMI latest. Findings you can not make hard turns in DW in shallow water you will crash. If you have never seen it you really do crash and that is what the mission debrief will tell you. This has forced me to go back to the drawing board on a mission I just finshed in the Formaosan Straits, to shallow and I really messed up any way, every dam escort launches Helos, had 6 up at one time. They found me and killed me. But a part of the problem is I can not evade.:censored:

Respectfully,

Ron Banks MMCM(SS), USN(Ret)

[Molon Labe]

Welcome to the wonderful world of 1.03beta. Hopefully the full version of the patch will fix this. :mob:

[Sub Sailor]

Well Molon I hope so to because it is really limiting what we can do. I feel I put togather a pretty good mission, but the main problem at the moment, if I am detected and the depth is only about 250 feet and I have to evade I crash. Man of areas that we will want to design missions force are shallow areas, I am thinking of Sea of Okhotsk, and Barents Sea.

Ron

[Lane]

Ron,
This is just my personal experence with subs in shallow water." It's bad news"
If they descover you. Playing that Kilo demo if that FFG launch's a Helo
After you fire on that cargo ship. And you have fired a bunch of CM's and move 90 deg east I have found you may evade the FFG's torp's that' fired on your torp bearing. with the CM's.
But when that helo come's It all over. You mit be able to pop up and surface
and hit him with a SAM from Bridge but you better dive fast because there will be a ship to surface missle on the way. from the FFG.
Just my 2 cent's worth
Lane

[Sub Sailor]

Oh I agree with you Lane, and I was using that as an example. I may have used a poor example, my main point is the loss of depth.
The present setup in DW is such that, say moderately deep water and you need to avoid, you could end up hitting the bottom. If you were at max depth-sub v sub and you were at a falnk bell, and you probably would be or going to one and made a turn you will go below crush depth.
Even the very best sub driver out there, way better than m, should not have to worry about depth control when playing this game. The depth control along with diving rate, and Towed Array speed really need to be corrected.
You are very correct if you are in shallow water and a helo get so on you, you are in trouble. In my opinion a helo is the very best ASW platform around, except for another sub. I will tell you from real life a good string of sonar bouys and a good helo will nail you almost everytime.
Subs, especially in littorial areas , are also facing these improved patrol craft with high speed engines that can just set and listen and when they pick you up can be all over you in a heart beat. They are almost invisible on sonar. I don't know whether you have noticed but in real life and in both DW and SC you can here helos on sonar. This new patrol craft I am talking aout is dead silent. They are going to b etough when you try to do harbor and bay ops.

Ron

[LuftWolf]

Ron,

The TA issue is hardcoded in the game.

I can't changed it in the database (the value is there but it's just a "spinning knob", it can be changed but doesn't control anything in the game itself).

Basically, if you are going faster when you deploy the TA, the TA will deploy faster and retract slower. If you are going slow, then the TA will deploy slow and retract fast.

I don't know if this is accurate or not, but I can imagine that the TA winches aren't ALL that much stronger than the drag produced by the array.

When you heard those deploy times (in real life), do you know at what speed they were recorded?

[Sub Sailor]

Usually 4-5 knots, on attack boats you would come off a sprint and deploy an array for a sweep. On the Boomers we would usually have one out but I don't remember how far becuse we were,usually, under orders to move out of any one's way to remain undetected. Just like we ran with the commo array out all the time because boomers copied the fox schedule constantly. Of course with elf we all could get orders to come to mast depth which was the fastest means, but elf was used as an emergency means and because of time of reception they were really short.
On an attack boat if you were hunting then the wire was out all the time and usually at full length for max detection. The reel were constant speed and certainly speed would help deploy it .

Hopes this help,

Ron Banks MMCM(SS), USN(Ret)

[Drop-Bear]

first of all let my apologise and defer to your collective wisdom in these matters. I am a newbie myself, but i have been constantly frustrated by the depth control problem. I found that ordering a shallower depth change of say 50 feet prior to changing course at flank, seemed to minimise some of the 'bottoming out' effect, depending on the amount of course change (of course). Naturally when it comes to littoral ops this doesn't help one bit; after all, who can afford a 50 foot shallow depth change in this situation?

[Sub Sailor]

Drop-Bear;
Listen don't worry about being a newbie, any thing you see that may help let us know. I have a favor to ask please give me some more details and I will try what you have written about in my test scenario I set up to study this problem.

Thanks,

Ron Banks MMCM(SS), USN(Ret):you_rock:

[Drop-Bear]

ok Sub Sailor here goes:

for the sake of this example say i am at 600' heading 160 i get a 'torpedo in the water bearing 120'. (Again, the whetness behind my ears shows up here), from what i have researched thus far, these are the steps i usually take:

1). Go to Flank Speed
2). order a 50' change in depth to 550'
3). change course to 240, release passive decoy shallow, active deep.
4). once on established heading i go deep but usually only at about 15 knots, providing Mr Fish has been significantly confused.

I don't know if it is realistic, but generally I don't wait for formal repeat backs before issuing a new command (voice activated), so it all occurs very quickly.

i originally used to make a 180 deg turn away from torps incoming path, but i have since read this is generally not a good idea unless you have caught the torp coming in early ??? in which case the larger bearing change tended to make the sub significantly deeper than stated below, usually between 80' - 100'.

the result of steps 1 - 3 usually result in a 25' drop of initial depth (average) (say 625'), sometimes less.

would this be similar to ordering an up angle on plane surfaces prior to making the turn?

Unfortunately, truth be known, i am ex Australian Army, and saw the light too late. I'd give the left side of one of my appendages to crew on a sub, i love the ocean, and love the idea of the unique challenges one gets whilst working below.

Anway hope this helps..

[Sub Sailor]

Drop-Bear this looks good, I am not sure about only a 50ft depth change. If and that is a big IF, you can go below the layer that is one method to fool the torpedo, and of course you also want to get out of it's track and that is why the 50 degree turn.
I will play arond with what you have been doing and get back to you.

Ron Banks MMCM(SS), USN(Ret)