OneShot
05-31-2005, 08:41 AM
Last one of my Reviews, read the full thread here : My Review on DW (Part VII) (http://www.battlefront.com/cgi-bin/bbs/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=41;t=000238#000000)
Mission name : ASW Gauntlet
The background on this mission is fairly simple, the Philipine Goverment has decided to place a Command Center on a certain Island and the chinese dont really like that, because it gives them (Philipines) better control over the South China Sea, and even less acceptable, control over the Spratly Islands (In Real Life the Spratly Islands are quite a hot topic). Your mission is to get within at least 7.5nm of the island and then deploy a Special Forces Team which has to be within 1nm of the island NLT 1600. Your starting time is 1200 and you are a bit more then around 11 or 12 miles out.
Sounds pretty simple huh ?
Well it isn't, as the name implies you have to overcome some barriers along the way ... the first barrier is a P-3C just waiting for you to do something dumb like driving in deeper water, preferably in direct line towards the objective. The second barrier is even more challenging as it is a Minefield, just waiting for your appearance. And the last barrier - well enter stage-left a Spruance DD with active sonar turned on and just waiting for you to come a calling.
So how did I go at it ? First of all you can't outdive the P3 MAD with the Kilo in those waters (and probably even not in deeper waters, as noted earlier it looks like the MAD right now can "see" as far down as 1800ft or 549m). Going up and Surfacing to shoot it down is a bad idea, not the least because your ROE explicitly state not to fire unless fired upon. Therefore I did what every good SSK driver does - he goes home to the littoral or shallow water. Thats like daddy comming home. Ok it gets interesting when you are at 17m (56ft), the bottom at 19m(62ft) and your sub breaches the surface at 15m(49ft), but then you hardly wont run into any ASW assets (as in surface) or SSNs there.
Further you have to keep in mind that the minimum depth for buoys is 90ft or 27m, which means in shallower waters the P3 and Helo cant corner you with buoys (but reALLY good with MAD). Now as I said before - this (littoral waters) is the place where the SSK belongs. So I plotted my way along the southern coastline of the AO, right on the 19/20m line. The P-3C never got a line on me and this move brought me around the minefield which was (as I learned in the Replay) deployed in deeper waters in the channel. So Aside from watching my depth, course and speed I had some boring 25 minutes (Thank God for Time Compression).
Now I have to admit that one of the factors which brought me that close to the shore was the thought that whoever made this mission hasnt placed any mines there. This was relevant because I simply overlooked the part in the manual where it tells you where exactly the HF sonar on the Kilo is! So I played the whole mission without using the HF sonar even once - makes life much more interesting. Only now while I write this I took the time to make sure I haven't accidentally overlooked it and browsed through the manual, and bingo - for future reference, the HF sonar is located at the Periscope station, and all you have to do to access is, is to click the screen transition button at the top of the screen.
Anyway, I got around the minefield without a problem and safely within 7.5nm of the center of the island. Thats the good news - Bad News once I was there I heard the DD and its active sonar (actually just the Sonar at first). Fortunatly I was more then 3nm (5500m) away from him and felt pretty safe, so I continued my way towards the island to give the SF less exposure. Unfortunatly for me the DD was doing a Barrier search and got closer and closer while I initially had to go north as well (thats where the DD was) because of the rising ground to depths of 16m and 15m to my east (where the island was). I got nearly towards the point where I was able to go southeast again and closer towards the island when I got the message that I was counterdetected (but the mission was still a GO). So I continued and played chicken with the DD, slowed down to 3kts sometimes and finally got on the other side of his barrier, without getting shot at (those were some hairy 5 minutes). Finally I got within the 1nm circle slowed down to 3kts and deployed the SF (its just as in SC, right click on the target and select deploy Special Forces - you have to be at PD Depth or shallower and at 3kts or less). Once they were away I reversed course and got on my way home. Since I brought them myself within of the 1nm circle before 1600 (it was 1542) the mission was allready a success but I wanted to see what they do before ending the mission.
They got clean to the beach and about a min later I heard lots of explosions from that bearing. The target was destroyed and the Special Forces as well (dont know tho if that wasnt the DD firing their gun at them or if they blown themselves up). Mission accomplished.
Now I tried this mission two times, the first time I deployed the SF shortly after hitting the 7.5nm circle and the second time as described above. On the first run the DD sunk them with a torpedo (it actually fired about 7 of them). For future reference : the SF make 10kts with their Inflated Rubber Boat.
Now on to the Kilo itself, the important question with it is always : Will my battery hold up? My answer - during this mission I had an average speed of about 5 kts with speeds not greater then 6kts. The battery was down to 80% after nearly 4 (game) hours, which means unless you drive her hard you will survive a mission without charging once if you started at 100%. The charging on both diesels at 0kts takes about 10min (game) time for 10%.
As for detection, the P-3C never got me, but then that depends hugely on how you play and how "dumb" the AI is, the same mission against a skilled human and I would probably have had it on the first barrier. I had to get within I think maybe 2-2.5nm of the DD before I got counterdetected, but even then I was not attacked. The closest I got to the DD was around 0.5nm on 3kts and again I was not attacked. I dont know if the DD hold the fire on me or not, I think thats up for testing. Again I have to say, this was against the AI, and I have no clue how the script was written, but you can say that anything within 1.5nm against a human is not the safest idea.
Well, the Kilo is nice to play, you have your limitations (no TA for example) but then you have to consider whats your job and whats your "home". Play it in the middle of the Atlantic against a SSN and you might find you on the wrong side of 10:1 odds, but play in litoral waters against a SSN or FFG and they might be on the wrong side of the odds.
Lastly I will do a short walkthrough on the individual stations. Please use the (very good) screenshots on the Dangerous Waters Homepage for reference, and remember that you can control more or less everything from the Task Bar as well.
First the Ship Control Station : here you can control the usual stuff plus the diesels and snorkel. You can turn on the diesels individually (one Starboard/one Port) and depending on how fast you go and many diesels you have turned on you will charge your batteries. One point to note, the PD Depth is 19m while the Snorkel depth is 17m. If you stop the boat you can charge with both diesels, everything from 1-6kts will use one diesel to drive and one to charge and finally everything above that and you only drive and dont charge. Conclusion : Don't Drive and Charge [Big Grin] .
Second the Sonar Suite : Pretty much the usual as in all subs, difference in the screens tho, just like in the Akula you have those round screens and unlike the others subs you don't have a TA at all. The Narrowband looks and works a bit differently than the US Subs but you get used to it.
Third / Fourth - the Radar and ESM/Radio stations : Both offer nothing new to anybody who has seen Sub Command. The Radar station is pretty bare, but then all you need to do is select a contact and hit mark. ESM/Radio Station has the usual gadgets including a floating wire. One thing tho, the ESM shows only one possible classification for any given ESM contact, the FFG for example gives you a whole list of plattforms who use the same Radar.
Kilo TMA/Weapons : Again the usual stuff, like the other subs, just looking a bit differently but if you know one, you know em all. You got six tubes, out of which 2 have the capability for wire control and the other 4 not. Keep that in mind when selecting your load at the beginning and reloading your tubes in game. You have all the necessary goodies like UUV, (rocket launched)torpedos, anti surface missiles, ant-land missiles.
Number eight is the Periscope station with the HF Sonar and Stadimeter, nothing new here too, if you read the manual - hehe.
The last station is the Sail Bridge from which you can take a look with and without Binocs and shoot your Shoulder Fired SAMs. You can't zoom in with the SAM, but when the seeker finds something valid the Target Indicator bars turn red. Then right click and whoosh.
Thats about it on the individual stations, overall I have to say it's fun to play the Kilo especially when you are just a meter or two away from the bottom (did I mention that you can bottom her?), nearly breaching the surface and hunted, that gets kinda intense, especially since you don't have that many chances to evade if somebody shoots at ya. Based on my current experience in the Kilo (which is not that great) I would say that a skilled skipper with the right tactics is going to have a lot of fun in MP, both against humans and the AI.
Mission name : ASW Gauntlet
The background on this mission is fairly simple, the Philipine Goverment has decided to place a Command Center on a certain Island and the chinese dont really like that, because it gives them (Philipines) better control over the South China Sea, and even less acceptable, control over the Spratly Islands (In Real Life the Spratly Islands are quite a hot topic). Your mission is to get within at least 7.5nm of the island and then deploy a Special Forces Team which has to be within 1nm of the island NLT 1600. Your starting time is 1200 and you are a bit more then around 11 or 12 miles out.
Sounds pretty simple huh ?
Well it isn't, as the name implies you have to overcome some barriers along the way ... the first barrier is a P-3C just waiting for you to do something dumb like driving in deeper water, preferably in direct line towards the objective. The second barrier is even more challenging as it is a Minefield, just waiting for your appearance. And the last barrier - well enter stage-left a Spruance DD with active sonar turned on and just waiting for you to come a calling.
So how did I go at it ? First of all you can't outdive the P3 MAD with the Kilo in those waters (and probably even not in deeper waters, as noted earlier it looks like the MAD right now can "see" as far down as 1800ft or 549m). Going up and Surfacing to shoot it down is a bad idea, not the least because your ROE explicitly state not to fire unless fired upon. Therefore I did what every good SSK driver does - he goes home to the littoral or shallow water. Thats like daddy comming home. Ok it gets interesting when you are at 17m (56ft), the bottom at 19m(62ft) and your sub breaches the surface at 15m(49ft), but then you hardly wont run into any ASW assets (as in surface) or SSNs there.
Further you have to keep in mind that the minimum depth for buoys is 90ft or 27m, which means in shallower waters the P3 and Helo cant corner you with buoys (but reALLY good with MAD). Now as I said before - this (littoral waters) is the place where the SSK belongs. So I plotted my way along the southern coastline of the AO, right on the 19/20m line. The P-3C never got a line on me and this move brought me around the minefield which was (as I learned in the Replay) deployed in deeper waters in the channel. So Aside from watching my depth, course and speed I had some boring 25 minutes (Thank God for Time Compression).
Now I have to admit that one of the factors which brought me that close to the shore was the thought that whoever made this mission hasnt placed any mines there. This was relevant because I simply overlooked the part in the manual where it tells you where exactly the HF sonar on the Kilo is! So I played the whole mission without using the HF sonar even once - makes life much more interesting. Only now while I write this I took the time to make sure I haven't accidentally overlooked it and browsed through the manual, and bingo - for future reference, the HF sonar is located at the Periscope station, and all you have to do to access is, is to click the screen transition button at the top of the screen.
Anyway, I got around the minefield without a problem and safely within 7.5nm of the center of the island. Thats the good news - Bad News once I was there I heard the DD and its active sonar (actually just the Sonar at first). Fortunatly I was more then 3nm (5500m) away from him and felt pretty safe, so I continued my way towards the island to give the SF less exposure. Unfortunatly for me the DD was doing a Barrier search and got closer and closer while I initially had to go north as well (thats where the DD was) because of the rising ground to depths of 16m and 15m to my east (where the island was). I got nearly towards the point where I was able to go southeast again and closer towards the island when I got the message that I was counterdetected (but the mission was still a GO). So I continued and played chicken with the DD, slowed down to 3kts sometimes and finally got on the other side of his barrier, without getting shot at (those were some hairy 5 minutes). Finally I got within the 1nm circle slowed down to 3kts and deployed the SF (its just as in SC, right click on the target and select deploy Special Forces - you have to be at PD Depth or shallower and at 3kts or less). Once they were away I reversed course and got on my way home. Since I brought them myself within of the 1nm circle before 1600 (it was 1542) the mission was allready a success but I wanted to see what they do before ending the mission.
They got clean to the beach and about a min later I heard lots of explosions from that bearing. The target was destroyed and the Special Forces as well (dont know tho if that wasnt the DD firing their gun at them or if they blown themselves up). Mission accomplished.
Now I tried this mission two times, the first time I deployed the SF shortly after hitting the 7.5nm circle and the second time as described above. On the first run the DD sunk them with a torpedo (it actually fired about 7 of them). For future reference : the SF make 10kts with their Inflated Rubber Boat.
Now on to the Kilo itself, the important question with it is always : Will my battery hold up? My answer - during this mission I had an average speed of about 5 kts with speeds not greater then 6kts. The battery was down to 80% after nearly 4 (game) hours, which means unless you drive her hard you will survive a mission without charging once if you started at 100%. The charging on both diesels at 0kts takes about 10min (game) time for 10%.
As for detection, the P-3C never got me, but then that depends hugely on how you play and how "dumb" the AI is, the same mission against a skilled human and I would probably have had it on the first barrier. I had to get within I think maybe 2-2.5nm of the DD before I got counterdetected, but even then I was not attacked. The closest I got to the DD was around 0.5nm on 3kts and again I was not attacked. I dont know if the DD hold the fire on me or not, I think thats up for testing. Again I have to say, this was against the AI, and I have no clue how the script was written, but you can say that anything within 1.5nm against a human is not the safest idea.
Well, the Kilo is nice to play, you have your limitations (no TA for example) but then you have to consider whats your job and whats your "home". Play it in the middle of the Atlantic against a SSN and you might find you on the wrong side of 10:1 odds, but play in litoral waters against a SSN or FFG and they might be on the wrong side of the odds.
Lastly I will do a short walkthrough on the individual stations. Please use the (very good) screenshots on the Dangerous Waters Homepage for reference, and remember that you can control more or less everything from the Task Bar as well.
First the Ship Control Station : here you can control the usual stuff plus the diesels and snorkel. You can turn on the diesels individually (one Starboard/one Port) and depending on how fast you go and many diesels you have turned on you will charge your batteries. One point to note, the PD Depth is 19m while the Snorkel depth is 17m. If you stop the boat you can charge with both diesels, everything from 1-6kts will use one diesel to drive and one to charge and finally everything above that and you only drive and dont charge. Conclusion : Don't Drive and Charge [Big Grin] .
Second the Sonar Suite : Pretty much the usual as in all subs, difference in the screens tho, just like in the Akula you have those round screens and unlike the others subs you don't have a TA at all. The Narrowband looks and works a bit differently than the US Subs but you get used to it.
Third / Fourth - the Radar and ESM/Radio stations : Both offer nothing new to anybody who has seen Sub Command. The Radar station is pretty bare, but then all you need to do is select a contact and hit mark. ESM/Radio Station has the usual gadgets including a floating wire. One thing tho, the ESM shows only one possible classification for any given ESM contact, the FFG for example gives you a whole list of plattforms who use the same Radar.
Kilo TMA/Weapons : Again the usual stuff, like the other subs, just looking a bit differently but if you know one, you know em all. You got six tubes, out of which 2 have the capability for wire control and the other 4 not. Keep that in mind when selecting your load at the beginning and reloading your tubes in game. You have all the necessary goodies like UUV, (rocket launched)torpedos, anti surface missiles, ant-land missiles.
Number eight is the Periscope station with the HF Sonar and Stadimeter, nothing new here too, if you read the manual - hehe.
The last station is the Sail Bridge from which you can take a look with and without Binocs and shoot your Shoulder Fired SAMs. You can't zoom in with the SAM, but when the seeker finds something valid the Target Indicator bars turn red. Then right click and whoosh.
Thats about it on the individual stations, overall I have to say it's fun to play the Kilo especially when you are just a meter or two away from the bottom (did I mention that you can bottom her?), nearly breaching the surface and hunted, that gets kinda intense, especially since you don't have that many chances to evade if somebody shoots at ya. Based on my current experience in the Kilo (which is not that great) I would say that a skilled skipper with the right tactics is going to have a lot of fun in MP, both against humans and the AI.