Landlubber's Survival Guide to Dangerous Waters

[Molon Labe]

Submarine-relevant excerpts from Smaragdadler's Guide are posted in this thread (with my comments when appropriate)

The full guide is available here: Landlubbers Guide v0.5 (http://www.subguru.com/DW_missions/Notfallmappe_v05.zip)

***NOTICE TO READERS***
If you wish to dicuss matters addressed in this thread, I strongly urge you to post them in another thread rather than in this one. For example, if you wish to discuss torpedo evasion, post it in the torpedo evasion thread....or create subject-releted threads as necessary if the subject has not yet been posted on. This Guide covers nearly every aspect of submarine warfare in DW and will get far too cluttered with we reply to every subject in the guide. Thanks for helping keep the forum organized and easy to use!


Skimming Around
Why the map colors on the navigation screen is not in sync with depth: You're seeing a feature that was discussed a bit in a thread at the Battlefront-boards sometime before release. Essentially the parts that are "lightened" on top of the "depth map" are (at least supposedly) acoustically dampened, or otherwise makes sonar harder to use. Try pressing [shift+i] in the game. It should affect your view a bit (it should also show any ice in the area).

Inertia and Sub aground driving: If you hit or command "right full rudder" or "left full rudder," sub changes course as expected. But, when you either set rudder to midship either through the control room "steering mechanism" or through "orders menu" the sub does not steady on course. It keeps turning. It's called inertia, ... and it's as designed. That is part of the advanced physics model. Submarines and ships weight more than a few thousand tons. A FFG displaces rouglhy 5000 ton of water.. at 25 knots, turning the wheel to max ... It will turn, eventually, but the same goes for going amidships. Their is so much momentum (or inertia) build up in the 5000 ton heep of iron, it'll go and go and go and go and go and go untill its either on a straight line again (which will take an icredible amount of time) or untill the helmsman decides to stop the turn by applying counter rudder. So you will have to compensate a full right rudder with some left rudder to get the platform stop turning. The rudder 'slices through' a lot of water...and once you start turning, momentum keeps you this way...even if it gets amidships. In high speed manoeuvres it will probably be even more obvious. Keep in mind also the rudder needs a few seconds to go back amidships. The [']-key sets the rudder amidships. This is much faster than going to other screens and menus and might just save your behind. A way out is : a) to just order the course you want, and the AI-crew will take steps to put you

there [albeit with a lower turn rate] or b) turn yourself manually but with lower rudder settings c) set the rudder amidships before your targeted heading or d) use opposite rudder as necessary. Hard rudder turns also have the tendency to slow down boats. In submarines a full rudder command in high speed will also affect your depth, as the sub leans gently and then easily start to go deeper. This means you could potentially cause the boat to exceed depth limits if you are not careful! Or think about swallow water enviroment with just 5m under the Keel. You need to watch the depth under keel. The crew does not give any warnings. He may not warn you for approaching the bottom, but the Diving Officer will warn you about crush depth. With alarm in his voice, even. (Explain it yourself this way: Joke on. ...if you run aground, you lose your command and ruin your career. Your diving officer is quite happy with this idea, ever since that time you chewed him out in the wardroom. Or maybe it's because you don't ventilate the boat enough. Whichever, the guy hates you. But if you go too deep and implode, everyone dies. So he's gonna tell you about that, and smartly. Joke off)

Kilo ship control panel: You may think that the ship control panel is forward facing in the KILO, but it is not. It is on the port side.

Do the Kilos in DW ever need to surface or run on diesel engines?
Battery charge level is simulated in DW for both player and AI diesel subs. Whenever you run
the diesels the snorkel must be raised.

[Molon Labe]

Sensor 101

First - Keep in mind that the 3D display on the NAV map station is ONLY displaying what your sensors are reporting to you. If you would like to see where the enemy "actually" is then you have to enable "Show Truth" (which is the biggest gamey cheat of them all, of course, so be careful). If you want to be more hardcore - switch off 3D at all.

What do you get from the different stations/sensors to solve solutions: Passive Sonar broadband -> bearing, type Passive Sonar narrowband -> bearing, class, type Medium Frequency Active Sonar -> bearing, distance Active Intercept -> bearing, (signal strengh – assume strong (red) is more nearby), type Sound Speed Profile (SSP) -> layers (of sound density) search, can help estimate of depth DEMON -> speed, category (as well as passive broadband it relies on) RADAR -> bearing and distance Visual/Periscope -> bearing, distance, course TMA -> course, speed, *range* ESM -> bearing, class Radio -> recieve messages (may contain hints of any kind) and link data (whole solutions).

Passive Sonar: Broadband (BB) d e t e c t s the noise of the contact. Narrowband (NB) analyzes that noise in to distinct tonals (the sounds of reactor pumps and electrical hum of the generators) at various frequencies; this is used to c l a s s i f y the contact. But narrowband can also be used for longe range detection of very low frequencys.

Moderator's Note: The Narrowband Station is the station where you will detect a distant contact first; for submarines it will probably be the only station that you detect the contact. As such, you will be spending more time here than at any other station.

Many new players make the mistake of believing that the classification displayed at the NB station is in fact the class of the contact. In actuality, the class displayed is the first profile in the library that closely matches the profile you are listening to--or perhaps a profile that is overlapping the signal you are interested in. Be sure to scroll through the list to learn what other classes the contact may be, or if overlaps are interfering, to check the sonar profiles document.

In most cases, you will not be able to obtain a positive classification. You will have to make a judgement call to guess the most reasonable choice of the options that the filter gives you. Use info from other sensors, info from the briefing, target behavior, and signal strength to guide your decision. For example, a very weak 50hz signal that is less than 10nm away in good sonar conditions is probably a non-US submarine; nothing else is so quiet at that range. On the other hand, that same weak 50hz signal may only be a fishing boat if it is 30nm away or more.


DEMON: If you have the TPK (Turns Per Knot) value which is different for each class, (in other words if you have ID'd the target) you can tell the speed with demon. Set the TPK value, 'select' the first bar, and read the speed. As a guess you can try 7 for subs and 8 for warships-most use those values. (Kilo uses 10.)

Moderator's Note: Large warships, like carriers, have TPK's of 6.

Active Sonar / Active Intercept: The first is to e m i t , the second to d e t e c t a source emitting - the famous *ping* - you know from the movies. Don't use active sonar if you are in a submarine, because this gives away your position and the enemy may immediately fire at you! Should only be used when the enemy knows where you are and giving away your position doesn’t matter. Also Akula and Kilo skippers may use it to get an exact range on a target for their SUBROCs. Oh .. of course .. any sonar is limited by platform speed. Active sonar too. In subs it is usually usable in 10kts. At 5kts all sonar sensors give perfect data (except if you're draging towed array on the floor). It may allso depend on the floor type: mud, sand, rock,... Try to give an angle to your bow, up or down depending on the type of floor. (rock down - because good reflection, mud up - because bad reflection).

Moderator's Note: If you are in an SSN and are hunting a Kilo, active sonar may be your best bet. Your enemy will almost certainly detect you first if you rely on passive detection, and you will be too close to escape his weapons. Wakehomers cannot be decoyed!

[Molon Labe]

Periscope: The best sensor, but you've got to be able to work the Stadimeter. You press Mark on the periscope itself to set a bearing. Then hit Photo to snap a picture. Then drop the scope (to get rid of radar target presenting) and switch to the stadimeter thingy. You rotate the picture of the ship to guess at angle on bow. You split the picture of the ship pulling the side with the highest mast down to where the top of the mast is at the waterline of the other half of the picture. Put that together with the type of ship, and when you hit Mark, you get Range, bearing, and course of target together.
Moderator's Note: Radar detection of masts such as the periscope is not modeled in the current (1.01) build of DW.

TMA: The TMA is where you put it together. You've got to know how Merge works. That's how you take data from different sensors and combine it to one target track. So Merge is how you combine your Sierra target data with the data you just got from the periscope. And you've got to be able to work the "ruler" in the TMA view to estimate range, and course. And oh yeah, you also have to work the Demon Display to get Speed of target. Go to the Classify Contact Screen from Map view to get target info.... the "turns per knot" or TPK - that's the key to making the Demon Display working. But the TMA is the key to it all. That's where all the data comes together and you create your estimate of where the target is and where its going. So, yeah, you've got to be able to work a bunch of arcane technology to pull data out of sensors and put it together in the TMA, but if you do all that - you can track a target ... mostly from sonar, with the occaiasional periscope peak to confirm it.

Moderator's Note: In nearly all DW multiplayer games, TMA autocrew will be permitted. The Autocrew is modeled to have some inaccuracy "within a certain threshold" which is refined away as more data becomes available. In most cases, the Auto TMA will provide a solution good enough to shoot on with just 2 bearing lines. If there are other targets you don't want to risk hitting nearby, it would be best to order a course change to get a second "leg" which would help reduce the innacuracy. Auto TMA performance decreases if the target is manuvering wildly, although it adjusts rather quickly. Auto TMA does have serious issues, however, in a high contact environment; updates can be rather slow.
In most cases, Auto TMA is too good not to use (it "knows" what a human player cannot in creating its solution), although it is a good idea to learn manual TMA for those other cases....manual TMA on torpedoes in a high contact environment can save your boat.

Sensor 201

Read „The Blue Book of Submarine Operations“. This can be found at www.subguru.com. It was written for Sub Command (the predecessor of Dangerous Waters) and contains good advices about submarine sensors and lots of other stuff.

Moderator's Note: The Blue Book was written for 688I Hunter-Killer, the prequel of Sub Command. The best tactical guide for Sub Command--and for DW by extension--IMO is the TACMAN by Tim Grab.

S.O.N.A.R.

General hints for sonar: For SONAR searches the slower you move - the better since it makes your hydrophones less "washed out" and it makes your submarine harder to detect. But the down side (sometimes this is an upside) is that your towed array will droop down and possibly drag on the ocean floor - it can also droop below the thermal layer and allow you to search both sides at the same time. Sometimes putting a little speed on is a good thing since when used on conjunction while some course changes, it will allow you to get a better solution on a target and if you change speed every two minutes, it confuses the auto TMA on other player subs. Additionaly it allows you to straighten out your TA after a turn that much more quickly. The bearings it gives when bent are usually bogus.

Traditionally, a submarine’s ability to avoid detection is defined in terms of its acoustic signature. There are many sources contributing to a submarine’s acoustic signature. Machinery and other propulsion-related vibrations enter the water through the hull and radiate in all directions. The propeller resonates when turning, and cavitation (noise generated by bubbles collapsing) can develop. Additionally, the turbulent flow of water around the ship can excite the hull itself. Each type of noise has a unique pattern, which can differ with speed, depth, and
water conditions. Quieting technologies continue to improve and are increasingly available tobackfit older submarines. Hull coatings, improved propeller design, and quieted propulsion plant equipment reduce the submarine’s overall noise levels, especially at high speeds.



Moderator's Note: Charts indicating sub noise levels at different speeds for DW 1.01 Hotfixed are provided in this forum in another thread.

[Molon Labe]

Different Noise Sources: There are a wide variety of noise sources present in the underwater environment, but the main, consistent contribution comes from only a few types.

Ambient noise, unlike other sources, does not come from a particular direction or source. The noise level is the same everywhere in the local area. The most obvious contribution to the ambient noise is the action occurring on the surface of the ocean. The greater the size of the waves, the greater the ambient noise contribution. The waves are driven by the winds, so there is a direct correspondence between the steady wind speed and the sea state. The greater the wind speed or sea state, obviously the greater the ambient noise contribution. The frequency of the noise from sea state tends to be greater than 300 Hz. The second main contribution to ambient noise comes from shipping in general. In regions where there are many transiting ships, the ambient noise will be increased substantially. This noise, in contrast to the noise from sea state, will be at low frequency (< 300 Hz). The third possible ambient noise source is biologics, meaning sea-life. These are as widely varied as they are unpredictable. One common source is snapping shrimp. Others include whales and dolphins.

Self-noise comes from the noise from the platform the sonar is on or from the flow of water across the receiving array itself. This self-noise has a minimum value which is present regardless of the speed that the array is traveling through the water, and the self noise will increase due to flow noise and the increase in noise from the platform which carries it. Self noise has a frequency and speed dependence. Flow noise would be similar to white or pink noise, i.e. a very wide band of frequencies at equal levels, rather than specific frequency components.

Cavitation noise is produced from the motion of turning propellers on surface vessels, submarines or a torpedoes. Cavitation is the formation of partial vacuums in a flowing liquid as a result of the separation of its parts. When these partial vacuums bubbles collapse, they produce cavitation noise, which sounds like a pulsed note and can be heard at considerable ranges, depending on the size of the propeller and the speed of rotation. A torpedo produces a very high pitched and fast rotation noise. Distinctive propeller blade broadband cavitation noise can render a submarine detectable by passive sonar systems. Generally, the level of noise from a ship increases with ship size and speed. The loudest noise from normal ship operation comes from cavitation of the propeller, which adds 10-15 dBA to the noise level of regular operation.

Passive accoustic sources fall into two main categories: broadband and narrowband sources.

Broadband sources create acoustic energy over a wide range of frequencies, similar to a thermal source in electro-optics. Typical broadband sources are noise from either the propeller/shaft, flow noise and some propulsion systems. Noise from the propeller and shaft is generally at low frequency, meaning less than 1000 Hz. The rate of rotation can amplitude modulate the noise, and this propeller blade rate tonal noise can be detected and demodulated to measure the shaft or propeller blade rate. BB contacts show not individual frequency lines, but the whole spectrum, so here's is where I would expect to see things like flow noise as subs go faster.

Narrowband sources radiate within a small band about a particular frequencies, or class of frequencies. Typical sources are the various pieces of machinery found in every ship, including example, pumps, motors, electrical generation equipment and propulsion systems. NB contacts show the individual frequency lines generated by specific equipment on board a vessel, e.g. a generator set spinning at 50 Hz. These lines may be independant of speed,

i.e. a running generator is a running generator, no matter how fast the sub is running. When specifying narrowband sources, it is important to also specify the frequency at which it occurs.

For the main playable subs, you should typically be able to pick up a "quiet" enemy contact from 10-15 nautical miles. Run deep and slow especially if you are picking up radar/sonar contacts.

More tips for being good with Passiv Sonar:

If there is surface ice, being in a sub and under nice thick ice makes it very difficult for threats to get you. Avoid shallows if you can. All common sense stuff really.

The thermal layer has a HUGE effect on detection range, something to always keep in mind. In deeper water where you have a thermocline to work with, keep the layer between you and your contact. If you're stalking another sub, this can be difficult. Usually, if you lose contact with your prey, he has changed depth. Now you know which side of the layer he's on. If you're stalking a surface vessel, it's alot easier. I'm not sure of the exact math, but from what I know, being under the layer reduces a surface vessel's detection range by almost half. The OHP towed array can, at low speeds, reach at least ~1200 feet, looking for you UNDER the layer, so there is nothing more important than knowing your enemy.

Moderator's Note: In DW 1.00-1.01 HofFixed, the layer does not work as a magical boundary the way it did in 688I Hunter-Killer. Exactly how the layer and sound-speed profile effect detection ranges is a topic worthy of its own thread, but the most important lesson is this: sound bends toward the lowest sound speed in the SSP and away from the higest sound speed. Sound from a source above the layer could very well reach a sensor below the layer, if the lowest sound speed is also below the layer....

The acoustics modeling in DW 1.02-1.03 has some significant changes. The layer effect is quite strong, and it is very possible that sound is only penetrating the layer at close ranges. At this time, we beleive the model traces a sound path that curves toward the lower speed of the SSP. There will be areas the sound bends away from and does not reach. Be aware.

The first detection for any contact, is usually a 50hz or 60hz line in narrowband, using the towed array. (Only sensor seeing this far down, hull sees nothing below 100hz, sphere ~1000hz)

You can make out the flooding of tubes, opening of doors and firing of weapons on the sonar displays. That's if you are lucky enough to be looking at your sonar display at that moment. Currently, a player only receives TIW (Torpedo in the Water) reports when the sonar crew detects a torpedo actually IN the water, but the associated launch transients are not reported.

[Molon Labe]

Classification using sonar is done by one of two methods:

1.) Matching narrowband lines to the ship types. 2.) Listening to the sound on broadband. Biologicals stand out here. This is a recognition thing for the rest, and would give only type for the most part. (warship, torpedo, ssn, ss, bio, etc.) Takes some experience though.

Also if the contact is close enought an accurate range will appear in the contact WAA label. Hitting RAP LOC will update your TMA picture with that range. Being contacts often not that close, the other (and usual) way is to struggle to gain a master contact (contact with 2+ arrays, i.e. Sphere Array+Towed Array or Towed Array+UUV) witch will allow for quick and good TMA solution in regards of the range factor.

Moderator's Note: The WAA and the RAPLOC functions are only available on the Seawolf class SSN.

TA detects lower frequencies (rule: the bigger the size of the sensor, the longer wavelengths that means lower frequencies it detects and they travel further than high freq. waves). So in the beginning you detect only low frequency components of a contact with the TA. Then you simply have to get closer and use sphere or hull sensor to detect the high freq. components too and only then can you classify that vessel 100%. It can get annoying, tracking a contact for a whole mission and not getting in close enough to figure out if it's a ship or a sub. The list of possible classes is in alphabetical order. You need to go through the list and find the one whose signature matches up the best with the contact’s signature. In short, the more freq. components you detect, the less possible choices the sonar database will give. And, if you're still unsure between say two of them, check demon to see the number of prop blades and compare it in the USNI reference. There's a lot of simple guessing at work here, unless you want to go real close to that contact to see what it is - but by then you could have a torp up your...

Classifying with Russian narrowband sonar: The only way to classify a target with superb accuracy is to close in. But usually you should be aware of what types of vessels are around in the mission area so you won't need a 100% classification. A few vessels have pretty much the same frequency characteristics, so take an educated guess, check your ESM mast if it's radiating or ID it with the periscope to be 100% sure. Also, check DEMON for the number of blades.

How to detect Air contacts in submarines:
You can detect helos in DW on sonar when you're in a sub. It was a relatively late addition tothe sim to help balance out the MP gameplay a bit. But how do you know it's a helo? Well,Pretty much the only way to ascertain if it is a helo is to put the BB cursor on top the return and listen for the BB sound on your speakers/headphones (maybe turn them up a bit, if needbe). You can also use your ESM antenna...

Submarines TA Sonar: The Towed Array is your best sonar-sensor. The only downside to the towed array is that it might scrape the bottom. The LA Class has currently (in game) two TB-16 TA's which are not different in their capabilities. The Seawolf however has two different TA's, TB-16 (Port) and TB-29 (Starboard). TB-29 is thinner and able to detect lower Frequencies over longer distances then the TB-16. TB-29 washes out earlier then the TB-16 too. Don't exceed 11knots, on higher speed the Russia's Pelamida-Towed Array is unable to pick anything. In 3 minutes interval change course 30 degree left or right - there is blind area in front of your ship. A towed array will only tell you in what direction a noise comes from. It won't be able to "see" contacts directly in front of your submarine due to the screws making too much noise. Same goes for directly behind the array since the hydrophones have a "blind spot" there. The range of a towed array is measured by a lot of variables, weather, seastate, salinity, own ship noise, how the sound travels underwater, temperature and so on and so on. So its quite hard to say what range is to be taken. When a hydrophone picks up a signal, the bearing in which you pick up the signal is ambigious, meaning, if you detect something in 090°, it might well be in 270° since the hydrophone is a cylindrical microphone and omnidirectional except for its front and rear. Surface-Towed Array units are usually alone at see, sailing under radio-silence and travelling at very low speeds to mask their appearance. They have a satcom link with the other vessel(s) as to not allow an enemy to "see" them using ESM. The major thing to remember for using a towed array is to change your course in line with the update times for TMA of 2 minutes.I might suggest changing course every six. After you make your 45 degree course change, watch the sonar screen. You'll notice the bearing lines for the "false" or ambigious contact will move and the true contact will stay put. From that, you'll get a decent TMA reading. Granted it won't be assigned a Master designation until another sensor picks it up, but you'll get decent enough information for a firing solution. Another thing to consider when deploying the towed array is tactics! Read the briefing before the battle as to guess what you are looking for. Also, pay attention to the SVP! If you have a distinct layer, stream one fully so that it will go below it, and have the other stream short to stay above it. Make course and speed changes to help out the TMA. More than likely, you won't find a sub going over 15 knots unless they get spooked. That leads to a skimmer classification. With maximum cable scope and slow speed, you may be able to exploit a tactical sound channel (this would be better with a realistic amount of cable - 5000 feet is what it actually has, so you can get it pretty deep. You can also rupture modules that way!). Use a little less cable to drop the array below the sonic layer depth, or shorten it right up to put it in the surface duct. Or any combination thereof. Don't forget that the bigger the distance between Ownship and TA the better the TMA.

How drop all contact in sonar?
That depends on if you have auto TMA set. Also, try to "drag" the tracker ID to the right of the CRT to drop it.


There is an exception if you actually cross its bearing line - by then it *was* the same as the turn, but it *is* not.

[Molon Labe]

Tips for Active Sonar: Do you remember? Better not use active sonar if you are in a submarine!!! The whole point about a submarine is to hide. Active sonar is like switching on a flashlight in pitch black dark. Your night-vision goggles is the passive sonar!

In the game, the strength of the sound return is not analogous to the visual return, in other words, the level of sound is not adjusted to the strength of the contact, whereas the visual return is. One thing to consider now, is that Target Aspect plays a more important role in Active Sonar detection. In other words, if you are directly astern (behind) of a target, and you „Ping“ it, ... you are going to get a small visual return. (although the audio return may sound loud). Conversely, a target that is broadside on to you, will give a stronger visual return (andthe same audio return as before). If Active Sonar is used against you: Once you're within the max range (10nm vs the OHP) aspect means a lot more than range for how visible you are. After that, sonar conditions mean a lot too.

D.E.M.O.N.

Only a tracker assigned in broadband will show on DEMON. Make sure that on the broadband there is an "A" or a "B" labeling the spike on the outer ring.

DEMON on Kilo: In order for DEMON info to work on the Kilo you need to do a few things. First, mark your target on the bow array broadband. Next, assign a tracker to it. If you already assigned the target by giving a tracker first, or assigned it by narrowband, then you wont get DEMON info. But this can be fixed by re-marking and re-assigning the tracker in broad band. You can assign Trackers in the Conformal Array, but you can’t get DEMON info. Again: You can assign trackers in broadband or narrowband, but you an only get DEMON info for trackers assinged on the Cylindrical (bow) array in Broadband. And for the record, the manual does state that it must be a broadband contact.

Moderator's Note: To get DEMON data, you need only to assign a tracker to a Broadband cylindrical array contact; marking it manually before assigning the tracker is not necessary.

R.A.D.A.R. As soon as you receive two Radar updates for the same sensor contact it is then officially a "target solution". The reason is that a Radar return provides Bearing and Range and so when you received that 2nd position for that contact you can then estimate Speed and Course when comparing it to the first position. As you gain more and more data the solution will become even more precise. This is assuming that you are in a sub and have your Auto TMA crewman enabled, since he's the one refining the solution for you and entering the Speed for you as well (causing the solutions to move on that entered course until the contact is dropped or expires on its own from lack of updates). Submarine radar should be used with caution and only when situation mandates its use. When you use radar you communicate your presence, your bearing, your proximity and who you are to all platforms in the area equipped with EW or ESM equipment. Now to use the radar of a sub, you must first of all go to Radar Depth (for exact number check Appendix C of the manual), or else the radar mast won't clear the water. If it doesn't, ALL the EM energy is reflected back into the mast and fries the electronics. Then...:

1.) Raise your Radar mast. 2.) Turn your range rings on. 3.) Set the range of your scale and the range of your rings. The greater the Scale Range then the less rings you have displayed, the smaller the more you have. They are backwards from eachother, if you have too many rings on you radar display then you can't see squat, try to minimize the amount of rings you have displayed or adjust them to the contact thats being detected. 4.) On your radar display there will be ‚blips’. This is the current contact. If you click on it with your map it will automatically place it in a circle and give you the line bearing, with you rings on it will also give you it's range in yards. 5.) The mark button will give you a contact on you navigation screen for you to see and also mark it in sonar from there find it's speed and start building valuable TMA on it.

T.M.A.

The TMA-Auto Crew: Although the TMA guy is a "genius," he is really far from perfect. He has a problem properly merging contacts from multiple sensors (remro and buoy contacts on the FFG) at times. For newbies, even a basic knowledge of how TMA works is required for the auto-TMA to properly work. For example, the auto man can't provide accurate range if you are approaching a contact (and the contact is appraching you) dead on. In order for his genius to shine, you have to properly "feed" the guy in order to be succesful. By the way, his name is „Otto“...

This is what you should know at least: 1) If you maneuver, your solution gets better. 2) If the target maneuvers, your solution gets worse. 3) If you maneuver and you have a contact on the Towed Array, you will not get a good solution until the TA stabilizes... 4) The Auto-Crew will merge contacts that are from the same unit and whose bearing from own ship are within 5 degrees of each other. The behavior you will see is the AC settingbearings and refining them and eventually he should merge 2 that are close. He does this without regard to contact range.

5. All 5 TMA AC in Dangerous Waters use the same algorithm for generating solutions, but the FFG TMA has a completely different interface and because of the manual ruler, does not have a dot stack.

The distance between the tick marks indicates the distance the contact would have moved intwo minutes at the indicated speed. If the tick marks are lined up with the bearing lines, you have a valid solution. Those on top are the most actual.

[Molon Labe]

How to learn TMA: To establish contact's course, especially if the contact zigs (changing course often to fool you), you need to master the TMA without AC pretty good, witch is the harder thing to learn in DW. Read the TMA Basics in the DW-manual (Section 5: Training 5-20). This gives you the generalidea. Get the SCHQ_TACMAN_PDF.zip-file from the Internet. A good place to look is http://www.subguru.com/downloads.html. The file contains the „TopTorp's Target Motion Analysis (TMA) Guide“ and the „Sub Command HQ Multiplayer Tactical Employment Manual“. This covers the story more indepth. They where written for Sub Command (the predecessor of Dangerous Waters).

Staying hidden – Sub against Sub, Low detection profile, Sound, Layers and SSP: The real reason why subs try to minimize the time they are at Periscope Depth is to avoid visual detection by aircraft. The first several tens of meters are transparent in the daytime; airborne MAD detection decreases with the corresponding increasing depth of the sub; near the surface the background noise makes the sub's passive sonar less effective thus increasing the chance for collision.

Moderator's Note: Transparent water is not present in DW (it was in Sub Command).

Subs quietly near the surface are harder to detect by another sub due to the shallow sub's acoustic radiation being drowned by the background noise. Like wise near the seafloor you will find similar conditions. Another important aspect is in which direction of depth does the speed of sound transmission accelerate? The SSP profile will tell you that. For subs at different depths, which one will detect the other depends upon the SSP profile (assuming that there is no layer and the subs acoustic radiation are equal): If the SSP speed increases with increasing depth -then the deeper sub will hear the shallower sub first. The sound from the shallower sub accelerates toward the deeper sub; the sound from the deeper sub decelerates toward the shallower sub. If the SSP speed decreases with increasing depth - then the shallower sub will hear the deeper sub first. In this case the sound from the deeper sub accelerates toward the shallower sub; the sound from the shallower sub decelerates toward the deeper sub. Acceleration involves momentum of that which is accelerated. This means that the sound emission being accelerated will impact harder than it would without acceleration; and that sound being decelerated will have it impact softened. Thus where your sub is in relation to the other sub's position in the water column is very important. Most players only use the SSP to find out where the thermal layer is, but they normally overlook the other data presented in the SSP. The so called shadow zone is simply an area at which detection by active ping is nearly impossible due to the SSP qualities. It is at this depth below the layer in which sound is refracted and basically hides you and your sub from any active Sonar. Ship, Sub or Torp. If the layer is at say 345 feet on the SSP then you could go to 545 feet and deminish an active torpedo from finding you. As shown in the most recent version of the Bluebook SSP's have varying effects on the way sound travels. Either sound is bent down or bent up. When a ship [or sub] pings the emanating sound wave encounters the layer, water of decreasing density and water of increasing density. The sound is bent or refracted accordingly by each of the three mediums. This sound wave does penetrate into an area at a certain depth [and distance] from the transmitting platform. This area is referred to as 'best depth' otherwise known as the 'shadow zone'. Submarines would use this depth to elude detection from pinging skimmers. The Quick Navy Method of calculating the "Shadow Zone" is you take the layer depth and add 200'. This is supposed to work only in a surface duct or shallow layer enviroment. Not shure if it has been incorpoated into the game or not.

Detection, classifying, tracking, and engagement process for submarines
: You shouldn't be expecting your passive sonar to tell you were the enemy is - that's your job at TMA. Sonar just provides you with the information that you need to deduce the location of contacts. Lot of classification is guesswork. If you can make reasonable guesses about range and speed, you can have a pretty good idea of the class based on signal strength. Blade count helps if you can get it. For many contacts, you mostly have to think about what sort of ships you're likely to encounter and match that list with the possible classifications given. Your detection, classifying, tracking, and engagement process should look something like this: 1.) Detect contact onnarrowband (or possibly broadband) and assign tracker. 2.) If towed contact, turn the ship to make sure you're not chasing after the false contact of the real ship 3.) Make a preliminary classification based on narrowband and DEMON info. 4.) Using your best guess of the classification of the contact, and DEMON data, enter a speed into the TMA station and start a plot (lock the speed parameter). 5.) Turn the ship, if you haven't done so already, to create a second (or third, or fourth...) TMA leg to refine your range and course solution 6.) Confirm your classification, if necessary, by closing range and examining any new lines that appear on narrowband. Correct target speed if preliminary classification was incorrect. 7.) Once sure the contact is hostile and confident in your TMA solution, assign that contact to a weapon in fire control 8.) Check the settings on your weapon to see that they are appropriate for your solution. 9.) Fire 10.) If a wireguided torpedo was fired, continue to do TMA on the target, and resteer if necessary. 11.) Come to Periscope Depth to watch that M***** F***** explode! (this is optional and surface contacts only!)
Moderator's Note: This post seems familiar somehow......

[Molon Labe]

Know the Weapons

Submarines: The 688i is the best playable missile sub in the game, because its VLS is the only thing that can throw enough missiles into the air to get through the defenses on a big warship.

Moderator's Note: The Akula's 14 weapon tubes can be loaded with the SS-N-27 ASM, which is a much more effective missile than the 688I's TASMs.

The Kilo is a diesel submarine and the most WW2-like in Dangerous Waters. Unlike WW2 boats the Kilo is actually slower on the surface then below. Further it depends on which class you drive the Kilo or Kilo Improved.

Torpedos: TheMK 46 and MK 50 are helo and ship launched ASW(Anti Submarine Warfare – against stuff below the surface)-torps. They have a range of only a few miles. A Mk 50 is a very unique weapon. The dynamics of the 50 is that it uses a vector logic system and remembers changes in water pressure. When it picks up a contact passively, it remembers the location and continues to search. If it finds it again it will parallel the targets course and attempt to get to the targets beam, then turn 90 degrees to it and strike the contact just below the sail, punching through both hulls. Nasty weapon... Use the Mk-50 over the Mk-46.

The MK 48 is a heavy wireguided ASW and ASuW(Anti Surface Warfare – against stuff on the surface)-torp. It has a range of 23 miles.

Moderator's Note: The ADCAPs range is 27 nautical miles.
Another noteworthy weapon is the 65cm torpedo carried by the Akulas. It is a heavyweight wireguided ASW/ASUW torpedo, range 27nm, speed 50 knots. A single 65cm will sink most surface ships, a Nimitz CVN will be killed with two.

The TEST-71 is a wireguided ASW torp with a 10 nmi range. TEST-71-NK ASW/ASuW (chinese version) max speed 40 knots. (Don't use against a seawolf)

The USET-80 is a ASuW and ASW torp with a 10 nmi range.

The 53-65 is a wake homing anti-ship torpedo. A Wakehomer homes in on the stern wake of a ship (which the FFG doesn't have below 5 knots). It's also important to set the Search Depth of the Torp to Shallow e.g. 10-20 metres. Also, the Torp needs to pass pretty close astern of the Ship, to pick up the Wake, and close with the ship. It also homes on the ship itself if it comes within range of the hull. This also applies to submarines. Wakehomers are tricky because you have to get it close to the target, but if you lead him too much he might turn the other way.


The SS-N-15/16/27 are Anti Submarine Rockets that drop a torpdo in the water. They have ranges of 18, 58, and 18 Nmis.

Moderator's Note: The SS-N-15 and -16 drop the relatively weak UGMT torpedo, which has a top speed of 41 knots, max depth of 1640 feet, and a warhead that will usually cripple rather than kill a submarine. The SS-N-27 ASW (and the corresponding KLUB-ASW) drops the type 40 torpedo, which has a top speed of 65 knots, can dive to 1970 feet, and will kill a sub with one hit.

Rockets:

Harpoons are faster than TSAMs but pack less punch. SM-2s are faster than both but pack the least damage.


Moderator's Note: The speeds of the TASM and Harpoon in DW are both 510kts.

The SS-N-27 ASM and the equivalent Klub-ASM are carried by the Akulas and Chinese Kilo 368. These missiles fly at subsonic speeds until enabling, when they accelerate to nearly 2000 knots. Once supersonic, these missiles are very difficult to shoot down, making them very effective against even the AEGIS-equipped American ships.

[Molon Labe]

Mines: Only the moored and contact mines need direct contact in order to explode in DW. The other five types in DW are all magnetic influence mines, and there are three range types, one is 50m (~180 ft), and the other two are both 100 m (~350 ft), but these two have different triggering probabilities with that distance. Only the mobile mines make noise and it can be removed when stationary (also note that although they are modified torpedos, they are designed to be stealthy when deployed, they are not supposed to be heard, and thus deploy at slow speeds for that reason at the moment is SL=72) Certainly the mobile mines should not be loud enough to very effectively attract a passive torpedo (and thus act as a mobile passive decoy … and yes, even the active torpedos have a passive sensor also, if you were wondering about that), however, the two mobile mines in DW both create significant noise in v1.01, and all the static mines do not emit any noise at all. So that issue is only for the mobile mines. But there is a catch here, all of the static mines are able to be actively pinged, detected and ranged, and thus will attract any active torpedo that comes near them (i.e. you can ‘clear’ a path through a static mine field using brute force if you must, or else sacrifice a UUV). But the mobile mines in v1.01 do not return any ping! Thus, you can not detect them on any active

display (and this is why the AI run into them without detecting them), so you also can not avoid them, and you can not clear them, because you also will have no way of knowing theyare there, even if you are actively looking for them (!). Obviously, this is not too consistent,namely, to have the static mine strongly returning a ping (which they shouldn't, as these are notoriously, and very much by design intended to be almost impossible to unambiguouslydetect, even with active), yet the even physically larger mobile mines do not return any pingat all. The mines certainly need to be tidied up. The mobile mines will not show on HF sonar after they are deployed at present. The static mines will show on HF sonar. To clarify that a little further for you, your SLMM's will be completely undetectable to you, and to your enemy,but other generic 'mobile mines' (other than SLMMs, that is) launched by other platforms in a mission, will be only weakly detectable on your HF sonar (Active SL=60 for those within DWv1.01 - so not every mobile mine is entirely non-detectable, just the SLMMs are).

Killing surface contacts with a submarine: Caution usually is the key. Once you have managed a good plot on a threat and have a very good idea of it's heading and distance from you, stalk it carefully until you are in a great shooting position. Launch your Torps from 10nm or less and from slow speed as well as nice and deep to cut down on launch detection and pinpointing of your sub. Alter course regularly, after shooting, get away from where you fired from. Don't bother with Harpoons or TASMs on distance surface groups. Use passive torpedoes set with ceilings of about 30 feet and floors of 30 feet. Passive Sonar on Torps will benefit from a slower Search Speed. Fire them a few minutes apart and start clearing datum when

you start firing. Remember to use the enemy’s closing speed against them, you can fire if they are out of your normal engagement envelope because they will enter it while your weapon is still active. Only use antiship missiles against defenseless targets such as merchants. Also - when you play the Akula or any other Russian sub watch where you fire any Stallions at enemy subs. If there are surface ships near the Stallion's flight path -they'll definitely shoot them down. You can use TASM's and/or Harpoons against surface warships if you are close (within 3-5 nm) and use lots of em' (at least 7 or more). Use torps first but,if missiles are all you got...make sure you get in as close as possible. TASMs are for a combined saturation attack on surface fleets when there is off board sensors providing targeting data. Harpoons are for smaller ships. Note that US SSNs don’t carry eather of them anymore. If launching anti-surface-missiles try to be aware of any helicopter threats. Launch from as deep as allowed, again get out of there after firing. Don’t forget the Russian SS-N-27 SSM. (also available as the KLUB ASCM) That missile is a killer.

Moderator's Note: The MINIMUM range of the Harpoon and TASM is 5nm.
Approaching a surface group very closely is an aggressive tactic, not a defensive one. Closing in helps to ensure that your torps hit the target ships and not OTS (over-the-side) decoys, and gives them less time to react to missile attacks. However, being close also increases the risk of counterdetection, especially by active sonar if within 12nm of the surface warships. Surface shps will often respond to submarine contacts by salvoing large numbers of ASROC's.

[Molon Labe]

Time on Target attack: It involves a bit of calculating (and a notepad). The trick is to launch the torps in such a way that they arrive at their intended targets more or less simultaneously. The easiest way to do this is to set all torps the same speed and time the launches, but if the targets are spread out, that might give the enemy enough time to send a heli your way before the launch sequence is finished. Playing with both timing and different pre-set speeds is a bit more complicated, but when it works, it does tend to make you feel

good about yourself. It's easier if you use constant speeds, but shoot the the next torp when the distance to your already fired torpedoes is equal to the difference in distance to each of the target ships. Varying speeds is one 'variant', and varying paths is another. The latter is usually the hardest, esp if you tend to keep yourself busy.

How to shoot down Air Targets from submarines: First: There are problems with subs using SAM's...they have to surface and that is a very bad thing for a sub because now their position is positively known. Where there is one helo, there are more and now the sub has givin its position away to the entire Battle Group. The sub has a better chance of surviving a Mk46 or Mk 50 attack than it does exposing itself to SSM's from P-3's or S-3's. Helo's rarely work alone and unless that sub has a box full of Stinger's he'll end up dead on the surf in a hot war. Second: In most subs you don't have to surface .. just popup the sail .. with kilo set depth 14m. Works great (unrealistically thought). You can wave your hand at FFG 500 yards away and they won't see you, because only SURFACED subs are VISUAL. Third: All AI helos also use radar, and are easily picked by ESM. Helos are dangerous, but only if you forget about them... if you know they can be there, it is no problem. Just shoot when they are close enough! You have just few SAMs on Kilo. In real life, if helo is downed, everybody knows where you are .. and they would like to revenge. Not so in DW. Surface the Submarine. Go to the Sail Bridge. Aquire the target visually, then confirm with the binocs. Stay cool till you can see good details on 4x zoom. Raise it a litle...and then switch to the SAM-firing mode. Look for the dot in the finder....raise it a litle...wait for the red indicator for a lock. You'll see the red dot in the crosshairs down on the bottom left (that sort of "bullseye" looking overlay). Then squeeze the trigger [Right mouse button] and let erfly...BIIIIIIIg fun. The target has to be in range. Be careful of missiles fired from anything in the area, including the enemy helo, MPAs, FFGs, DDGs, etc. when firing on helos! The red dot ensures that the missile will track the target, but you can still fire without one if you'd like (it may acquire, it may not). If you can see the helo in detail without binocular, don't wait for the red dot - just FIRE!The SAM will acquire... and if you don't do it quickly the torpedo coming towards you will make that decision your last...The big limiting factor is that the SAM only have enough fuel to go 2.0-2.2 nm. So, make sure that you've got a good bead on that bugger or else he's going to drop a torpedo in your back pocket - if and when he survives the ordeal.

Moderator's Note: (Edited) Testing by Pigfish and I has shown that the FFG does in fact get visual contacts for exposed submarine sails. The P-3 can also detect exposed sails, and I'm willing to assume that the MH-60 does as well.

While the use of the SAM is risky, not using it is also dangerous. The primary benefit of the SAM isn't being able to shoot down aircraft--it really is a poor weapon for that--but rather that the THREAT of being shot down will discourage P-3 and Helo drivers from dropping torpedoes directly on you. Make sure your airdale opponents know that you are willing to pop them if they get sloppy, and you will have time to evade their torps.

In general, an air target that can be seen in great detail under maximum magnification on the 'scope is in range; or if it is slightly more than a tiny speck on minimum magnification.

[Molon Labe]

Moderator's Note: Torpedo evasion is a process that involves several variables changing at the same time; as such, it is very difficult to test exactly what works and what doesn't. I urge all readers who are reading ANYONE'S torpedo evasion advice to keep a healthy bit of skeptism, and to try out different techniques and see what works for them.

This topic is worthy of its own thread, and will soon have one on this board. I will try to keep my own comments in this thread to a minimum in order to stay organized.

How to evade Torpedos in a Submarine: The first thing to remember about torpedo evasion is that you can't outrun most of the torpedoes that you will face in this game in a straight-line race. They are also pretty stupid, but if they are wire-guided by a human opponent, they can be hard to get away from. Once Sonar has reported "Torpedo in the water" and given a bearing, you need to check the torpedo's bearing drift. If bearing is constant, then you are probably the target. If bearing is changing noticably, then someone else is the target and you should not do anything. If you've been detected and have had a torpedo shot at you with a good solution, you are in trouble. So your best bet is to turn sideways from the torpedo and RUN, trying to stay out of the "cone" swept by its sonar. CM's (Countermeasures) are mainly useful for getting the torp to chase a false target while you are busy escaping its search pattern. Good luck trying to spoof a torp that has already locked onto you. This happens at point blank range, or when a torp is dropped from a helo right on top of you (its possible, but unlikely). Assuming that you are the target and your only plan is to evade, the following is one way that can work. Do the first three steps as simultaneously as possible:

1.) Order Flank (zero [0] key). If you are fairly shallow, SONAR-guy will scream that you are cavitating. That's OK, since speed is what you want.If you have sufficient water depth start heading deep. 2.) Immediately turn the ship with full rudder (either '[' for left full rudder or ']' for right full rudder) until the torpedo bearing is on your beam (ordered course is about +/- 90 degrees from torpedo bearing). Hit the apostrophe key ['] when ship's head is on the required course. 3.) Launch an active countermeasure from the countermeasure panel at own ship's depth then go as deep as you can (know where the bottom is!!!). If you are already deep, go to the Nav plot [F7], right click on own ship's symbol, and select Launch Countermeasure Shallow. This may spoof the torps to go shallow when you are deep. 4.) Run for at least 8 minutes on a steady course. Your broadband sonars will be blanked while at a flank bell. Check on incoming torpedo bearings by monitoring the Sonar Passive Intercept panel. If your evasion is successful, the sonar bearings should draw aft and not get louder (colored bar under display doesn't get into the yellow or red zone). If one or more torpedoes seem to be getting closer, launch another countermeasure and adjust course to maintain a +/­90 degree offset from torpedo bearing on the Passive intercept display. 5.) If the torpedo bearing crosses your stern or grows fainter or you can no longer hear it, your evasion was probably successful; you should immediately slow to take a look around. (Remember, as long as you are going fast, you make a VERY loud target.) Don't be surprised if a second salvo comes your way, or is already on its way.

Moderator's Note: Use caution when driving at high speeds. The towed arrays on all SSN's will fail at 40 knots (relative to land). This means that a Seawolf at flank can lose its ears, as can Akulas and 688I's if the current adds to the land-speed of the sub (hopefully this will be changed so that TA failures are dependent on speed relative to the water in a future version of DW)

Some more stuff to think about:

1.) On a war patrol, a CO and his OODs have their torpedo evasion plan worked out for every possible combination of water depth and sound velocity profile (SVP). They know where the layer is and how strong it is. The evasion plan will mandate going as deep as possible, or going cross layer, or going shallow if deep, depending on sonar conditions. Use the layer and try to spoof the torpedoes to the opposite side of it from where you are. 2.) On a war patrol, always keep two of your own torpedoes ready to fire. A hot crew will counter fire on a "Torpedo in the water" bearing - even as they begin to evade.

3.) After launching your first countermeasure, reload the empty launcher while on your initial evasion leg (only if on a 688I or Akula...the Seawolf has gazillions of CMs). You generally have some dead moments when you are just running when you can order the reload. You can go back to Sonar when the reload is ordered. 4.) Avoid the temptation to slow after just a couple of minutes of running. You have to drive yourself out of the torpedo's acquisition cone as quickly as possible. At the maximum detection range, the cone is several miles wide. To go 4 NM at 35 kts takes nearly 7 min. This is also why you try to put the torpedo on your beam...you put all of your speed in the direction of the shortest distance out of the torpedo's acquisition cone. 5.) If the weapon is launched from short range, all bets are off. Radical maneuvers (depth, speed), turn away from the torpedo to drive out of its sonar cone, and launch lots of CMs. If you are against a human opponent, the best course may be to head toward the firing ship ­to try to get inside the torpedo's sonar enable point. The method described is generally a bad idea against someone who is wireguiding his torpedo.

6.) The countermeasures don't work all the time. Basically the torpedo flips a coin and either goes for the CM or not. If he doesn't it apparently didn't matter if there was one or more CMs, he just ignored them. So the number of countermeasures dropped doesn't seem to matter...either the torpedo is going to go for it or it doesn't. 7.) You can try an play an emergency blow as your last card. You can do this in the Ship Control Station [F1] of all Submarines. The good thing is that it brings you up fast, the bad is, that someone may waiting for you up there. Be careful with your air charge!

Moderator's Note: A torpedo that did not get spoofed by one decoy is NOT immune to being spoofed by another.

[Molon Labe]

Special Forces How to deploy: From the manual: "The selected contact is a surface ship or landbased target, ownship has special forces aboard, ownship is traveling at periscope depth or less and at 3 knots or less" You have to be at a certain depth and speed before the option appears. You must right-click the TARGET(!) on the nav screen, then select deploy special forces.

Deep Submergence Rescue Vehicle (DSRV) DSRVs are designed for quick deployment in the event of a submarine accident. DSRVs are transportable by truck, aircraft, ship, or by specially configured attack submarine. At the accident site, the DSRV works with either a “mother” ship or “mother” submarine. The DSRV dives, conducts a sonar search, and attaches to the disabled submarine’s hatch. DSRVs can embark up to 24 personnel for transfer to the “mother” vessel. The DSRV also has an arm to clear hatches on a disabled submarine and a combined gripper and cable cutter. The gripper is able to lift 1,000 pounds.

Biologics and Sonar:Whales will sing on the BB sonar. When they do, a large spike will form (on the Russian Sonars). Also they have no NB noise or Demon lines. Shrimp will all infinite demon lines no NB noise and be a constant contact, that sounds like thousands of pieces of paper being crumpled up.

Moderator's Note: That's it folks! Remember to check out the full guide for info on other platforms or info that is more real-life than DW.

[Smaragdadler]

Thank you very much for your additions Molon Labe. They will surface again in Notfallmappe v0.5. :smile:

[Pigfish]

Moderator's Note: While the FFG seems unable to visually detect the sails of submarine...


The OHP lookout can definitely ID a subs sail. For reasons I don't understand though the OHPs (and helos) lookout has a very short range. Approx 3 miles.:frown: Far less then you can see from bridge or MG station with binocs. Ive changed mine with DWedit and I really hope DWX takes care of this. The auto lookout guys really need a talking too.:rolleyes:

[Molon Labe]

I actually tested this issue before posting on it.

I placed a Kilo on a test map (actually, the same Kilo I overflew with the P-3) with a playable FFG nearby it, set to 14m IIRC (just the sail poking out). I drove the FFG nearly on top of it, within a few yards of a collision, and no visual detection was ever reported. Maybe visual detection is dependent on the sail's height above water?

[Pigfish]

Hmmm. Before posting the above I had tested with a Collins. So I just tried it again twice with a Kilo. One at 46 feet the other at 48 feet. Distance 930 yards. Both cases gave me a visual contact. As mentioned I have altered my visual with DWedit so I even went back to the origional settings. Same result. This is strange.:confused:

[Molon Labe]

Aha! Your persistence has been most helpful. I checked my Kilo's depth, and it was 45 feet...so it wasn't the depth. So I ran the test again. Same result, no visual detection. Then I noticed "show allies" was on; I turned it off and was immediately rewarded with report from my lookout! Rock on!

[ITZREAL]

I have benefitted from the Landlubber's guide as I am sure many have.

Molon Labe, you make some great analysis of the text as well.

I look forward to the version 0.5 when it comes out.:smile:

[Smaragdadler]

Notfallmappe - The Landlubbers Survival Guide to Dangerous Waters v0.5 is ready and out to Subguru. :ping:
It should surface in his area of operation soon...

Cruise at: http://www.subguru.com/